venom swamp

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venom swamp

Post  kyros on 2011-12-15, 04:01

I faced a guy the other day who used Mira the Giant Star whose ability is "If this face-up card on the field would be destroyed, you can detach 1 Xyz Material from it instead. While this card is face-up on the field, face-up Level 4 or lower monsters you control cannot be destroyed by card effects."

Venom Swamp states "Monsters lose 500 ATK for each Venom Counter on them. Destroy a monster if its ATK becomes 0 by this effect. During each player's End Phase, place 1 Venom Counter on each face-up monster, except "Venom" monsters."

I had venom swamp on the field, and over time it reduced Mira to 0 atk. Would he be destroyed no matter how many xyz materials he had, or would he be able to last until he received venom counters until he could no longer remove a material?

I thought the ability was a continuous eff so even if he negates a destruction the swamp's effect would still try to destroy him so basically he could negate it 3 times, but nothing would come of it since the effect is still there to destroy his monster.

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Re: venom swamp

Post  BlackwingRa on 2011-12-14, 19:26

Mira the Giant Star will detach to protect itself and Venom Swamp will try to destroy it again, the loop continue until Mira run out of Xyz materials and Mira the Giant star will be destroyed.

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Re: venom swamp

Post  MultiJazzBeat on 2011-12-14, 19:31

I agree with rocket.
the only other thing would be Mira would negate the effect, next turn swamp would activate again, and it would continue until she runs out of units.

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Re: venom swamp

Post  BlackwingRa on 2011-12-14, 19:37

Venom Swamp will not wait for next turn, it will make Mira continuously detach its Xyz Materials in 1 End Phase and then kill Mira in that End Phase.

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Re: venom swamp

Post  MultiJazzBeat on 2011-12-14, 19:39

Either way, Mira will go down.

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Re: venom swamp

Post  kyros on 2011-12-14, 20:01

BlackwingRa wrote:Mira the Giant Star will detach to protect itself and Venom Swamp will try to destroy it again, the loop continue until Mira run out of Xyz materials and Mira the Giant star will be destroyed.

That's what I was thinking, but the other guy insisted the destruction effect was a trigger effect that activated when a monster was given a venom counter. I had a pretty strong advantage at the time, and the duel was unrated so I didn't want to call and admin or cause an argument over it. ty for replying with answer Smile

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Re: venom swamp

Post  BlackwingRa on 2011-12-14, 20:04

Stardust Dragon get hit by Venom Swamp and Stardust Dragon can do nothing to protect itself, how can Mira? Venom Swamp's eff that destroy an 0 ATK monster doesn't start a chain.

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Re: venom swamp

Post  DefiniteOtaku on 2011-12-15, 14:13

Venom Swamp only checks once after a counter is placed once, meaning that Mira would not be checked over and over again.
When a counter is placed again next turn, it will not have its Atk lowered any further, so it is safe.

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Re: venom swamp

Post  BlackwingRa on 2011-12-15, 16:06

I thought Venom Swamp will check over and over again, even in 1 turn to see if the monster that ATK become 0 by Swamp is destroyed or not. Are you sure a about this?

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Re: venom swamp

Post  The DetonatorCOPY on 2011-12-15, 16:44

TamA and I had a discussion about this I agree with MultiJazzBeat and BlackwingRa because of what Venom Swamp looks for in its effect. Its a continuous effect looking for "a monster if its atk becomes 0 by this effect".

However I can see the point raised by Otaku as well even though in this situation I do not agree with it we may need some further clarification.

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Re: venom swamp

Post  dest on 2011-12-15, 17:01

Ra is right. At least if WC11 is right, I could safe the six sam by sending another but then it got immediatly destroyed after.

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Re: venom swamp

Post  The DetonatorCOPY on 2011-12-15, 17:22

If "Imperial Order" is removed from the field and "Venom Swamp" and "Ring of Magnetism" simultaneously reduce a monster's ATK to 0, then whichever card was played last is considered to be the card which reduces the monster's ATK to 0.[1]

Based on this ruling I would agree that it is constantly checking until the reduced monster is no longer face-up on the field.

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Re: venom swamp

Post  DefiniteOtaku on 2011-12-15, 17:27

The Detonator wrote:If "Imperial Order" is removed from the field and "Venom Swamp" and "Ring of Magnetism" simultaneously reduce a monster's ATK to 0, then whichever card was played last is considered to be the card which reduces the monster's ATK to 0.[1]

Based on this ruling I would agree that it is constantly checking until the reduced monster is no longer face-up on the field.

Okay, Tams thought otherwise originally, when I asked him, which is why I used his ruling over my gut instinct.
I'll note this though when dealing with anything related in a similar manner.

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Re: venom swamp

Post  TamACOPY on 2011-12-15, 17:35

The Detonator wrote:If "Imperial Order" is removed from the field and "Venom Swamp" and "Ring of Magnetism" simultaneously reduce a monster's ATK to 0, then whichever card was played last is considered to be the card which reduces the monster's ATK to 0.[1]

Based on this ruling I would agree that it is constantly checking until the reduced monster is no longer face-up on the field.

Given the ambiguous wording of Venom Swamp for this situation, this ruling is the best we have to know whether or not it constantly checks the ATK stats. I'll agree with The Detonator about Venom Swamp constantly checking the ATK values, and not only during the End Phase or when the ATK is modified.

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Re: venom swamp

Post  BlackwingRa on 2011-12-15, 17:44

I said End Phase because Mira need 2 Venom COunters for its ATK to reach 0, and if all Venom Counters on Mira are put by Venom Swamp, it obviously will be destroyed at End Phase.
BTW, what about 2nd eff of Zenmaines if Venom Swamp about to destroy it at End Phase?

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Re: venom swamp

Post  TamACOPY on 2011-12-15, 17:48

BlackwingRa wrote:BTW, what about 2nd eff of Zenmaines if Venom Swamp about to destroy it at End Phase?

If this face-up card on the field would be destroyed, you can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card instead. Once per turn, during the End Phase, if this effect was used this turn: Target 1 card on the field; destroy it.

The 2nd effect only activates once, even if Zenmaines used its protection effect twice. However, Zenmaines needs to be faceup on the field for it to activate. So, in this scenario Venmon Swamp would destroy it before it has a chance to trigger.


Last edited by TamA on 2011-12-15, 17:51; edited 1 time in total

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Re: venom swamp

Post  BlackwingRa on 2011-12-15, 17:50

What I meant is Zenmaines can stay alive if it blast Venom Swamp right?

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Re: venom swamp

Post  TamACOPY on 2011-12-15, 17:51

BlackwingRa wrote:What I meant is Zenmaines can stay alive if it blast Venom Swamp right?

Already added that to my previous post.

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Re: venom swamp

Post  BlackwingRa on 2011-12-15, 17:52

Oh ok.

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