Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

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Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

Post  Kamakazii on 2012-02-01, 03:46

Ok so I will just break down what happned in the duel, my frend flip summons Morphing Jar #2 so all my on field monsters come to my hand. and I have to draw until I get 4 or lower star mobs as much as was returned. any other cards traps,spells and 5+ stars get "Discarded" Effect of morphing Jar - FLIP: Return all Monster Cards on the field to their respective Decks and shuffle them. You and your opponent then pick up cards until you both have the same number of Monster Cards that were returned to each Deck. Special Summon the Level 4 or lower monsters to the field in face-down Defense Position. The rest of the cards picked up are discarded to the Graveyard. Says there to "DISCARD to the graveyard. And here is Sillva's effect - If this card is discarded to the Graveyard by a card effect: Special Summon it from the Graveyard, then, if this card was discarded from your hand to your Graveyard by your opponent's card effect, your opponent returns exactly 2 cards from their hand to the bottom of their Deck, in any order. So Sillva is a 5 star monster I discard it.... but does jis first effect activate If this card is discarded to the Graveyard by a card effect: Special Summon it from the Graveyard, do I get to SS sinc he was discarded to the graveyard due to Morphing jars effect? please I would like to know. sorry it's its all clustered.

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Re: Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

Post  BERKAY on 2012-02-01, 03:53

I think Jar's "discard" and Sillva's "discard" doesn't mean the same thing. Their meanings are different. Jar's effect is a mill, but Dark Worlds need discard in right meaning which is "discard from hand".
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Re: Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

Post  Dart on 2012-02-01, 11:07

It's easy, discard is always from the hand to the graveyard, so Dark World monsters won't get their effects due to Morphin Jar #2 since those cards never reach your hand in first place.
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Re: Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

Post  mido9 on 2012-02-01, 11:17

Basically what dart said.
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Re: Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

Post  Kamakazii on 2012-02-02, 05:05

I see, but there are two effects. - If this card is discarded to the Graveyard by a card effect: Special Summon it from the Graveyard (Continue) , then, if this card was discarded from your hand to your Graveyard by your opponent's card effect, your opponent returns exactly 2 cards from their hand to the bottom of their Deck, in any order. I would understand and agree if the effect said "if this card was discarded from your hand to your Graveyard by your opponent's card effect: Special Summon it from the Graveyard.

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Re: Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

Post  Dragonknight1991 on 2012-02-02, 06:31

Kamakazii wrote:I would understand and agree if the effect said "if this card was discarded from your hand to your Graveyard by your opponent's card effect: Special Summon it from the Graveyard.
It says exactly that >.>

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Re: Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

Post  Kamakazii on 2012-02-02, 07:38

No it doesn't say exactly that, this is the EXACT effect on Sillva : If this card is discarded to the Graveyard by a card effect:( Doesn't say hand) Special Summon it from the Graveyard,(An addition to the first effect) then, if this card was discarded from your hand to your Graveyard by your opponent's card effect, your opponent returns exactly 2 cards from their hand to the bottom of their Deck, in any order. So I do not get how you get this effect " "if this card was discarded from your hand to your Graveyard by your opponent's card effect: Special Summon it from the Graveyard." from from the effect I gave you.

This is what I see when I read the effect. If my card is discard by me for instance with well Morphing Jar #2 I get to Special Summon it. Now if it was discarded by my opponents card effect lets say Card destruction then I not only Special Summon it but my opponent picks two card from their hand and places them to the bottom of the deck in any order.



(If someone is going to discuss the matter of the effect of this card with me please log into DN and read the full effect first, Thank you)

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Re: Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

Post  Phoenix Wright on 2012-02-02, 07:40

yugioh wikia wrote:A Discard is the act of sending a card from your Hand, under normal circumstances, to the graveyard that can either be as a result of a card effect, or as a requirement to activate a card.

Morphing Jar 2 uses an older text style wherein cards that are send from the deck to the graveyard are "Discarded"

Painful choice is another example of this, even though there not in your hand, they are discarded


TL;DR, Silva will NOT activate


Last edited by Phoenix Wright on 2012-02-02, 15:55; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

Post  Kamakazii on 2012-02-02, 07:49

Sorry to say but nothing that anyone has said has convinced me otherwise, but if someone can show me a card that would say to "Mill" cards then I would be more then happy to agree.

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Re: Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

Post  raidou on 2012-02-02, 09:09

but any card with words 'pick up ' doesnt add to hand until the effect resolves


jar 2 cards never reach hand, are picked up then summoned or sent to grave

silva cant activate because it never reaches hand

there are other cards with that effect like monster gate
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Re: Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

Post  WrightJustice on 2012-02-02, 09:36

Kamakazii wrote:Sorry to say but nothing that anyone has said has convinced me otherwise, but if someone can show me a card that would say to "Mill" cards then I would be more then happy to agree.

Mill is not a proper term and is only a fan term, first derived from MtG because of a card called Millstone which sends cards from the top of the deck.

Next there's the fact that, as already stated, discard in rule terms means just from the hand and old cards can't magically have their words changed so things like morphing jar 2 have old terminology on them.

Then there's the fact that "picking up cards" doesn't actually put them in your hand in the first place, therefore with "discard" meaning something along the lines of "drop them from your HAND to the graveyard", we can see that cards morphing jar 2 send to the graveyard are not truly discarded at all.

In conclusion:
1. To discard means to be dropped from the HAND to the graveyard (or be banished if something says to do so).
2. Jar 2 uses old terminology that could do with an errata since the term discard is now wrong on this card.
3. Picking up cards doesn't add them to your hand in the first place so they can't be discarded.
4. Silva needs to be discarded to have its effect activate and since 1-3 are true, the conditions are therefore false and so no effect is activated.
Thus: Jar 2 does not activate Silva's effect.

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Re: Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

Post  Dart on 2012-02-02, 11:53

Kamakazii wrote:Sorry to say but nothing that anyone has said has convinced me otherwise, but if someone can show me a card that would say to "Mill" cards then I would be more then happy to agree.

Stop being a fool =/

The official rulings say that "Discard" is the act of sending cards from your hand to the graveyard, end of story dude, there's no reason for Sillva to say "Discard from the hand" because you can't discard from anywhere else besides your hand, it's supposed that "Discard" should be more than enough to make the effect understandable for people with a few brain cells working properly.

Morphin Jar #2 is a SUPER OLD card (that needs a text correction), back in the days there wasn't wording issues due to the game being extremely plain and simple, they weren't nearly as important as they are right now. And if there's an issue, there are the rulings that states things quite clearly... except for stubborn and annoying people like you.


Last edited by Dart on 2012-02-02, 12:12; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

Post  T3RCX on 2012-02-02, 12:09

http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/rulebook/YGO_RuleBook_EN-v8.pdf

As BB would say, "read the rulebook."

Because you know it actually defines what words like "discard" mean, and then you could apply some deductive reasoning to conclude that Morphing Jar #2 does not actually discard anything and is simply a case of an old card that needs errata.
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Re: Morping Jar #2 Effect on Sillva Effect.

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