God

Page 11 of 11 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Do you believe?

47% 47% 
[ 35 ]
53% 53% 
[ 39 ]
 
Total Votes : 74

Re: God

Post  JDC on 2012-02-02, 21:00

1) Q: Does God exist?

A: There is no direct evidence for his existence, of that we can be certain. At any rate, who cares? God keeps to himself, we should do likewise.
Even with what I can see, a focus on morality, by developing a rational, logical mind (which the Bible does seem to suggest doing), is what's really important. Even if God does not exist, many people can be certain that teachings in the Bible focus on this. If anyone wants to hear about the Bible, they can be told about it, but they must be allowed to use their own judgment, even the Bible seems to advise this. I, for one, get rather disturbed at what seems like heavy-duty brainwashing that seems all too common these days. I don't have a problem with people refusing to believe in the God depicted in the Bible.

I'm bored with trying to understand how omnipotent minds work. In fact, I distrust higher powers on principle, because they treat people like chess pieces and don't understand/care that other people can be hurt by their actions, and that the best move is not always the right move.
Well, omnipotent minds may very well be an exception to the 2nd statement (I believe so anyway), but even they would have to be aware that people that are limited compared to them cannot operate the same way. For example, I don't get to play God by doing a whole lot of stuff that he does in the Bible, on account of the fact that, quite frankly, I would have no clue what I'm doing, and I would quite rightly be judged insane/evil if I did so. It's also a good idea for me to distrust God on a certain level. By that, I mean, it is possible for many people to believe God is talking to them, but alternatives, such as mental illness, may cause this instead, and then disaster can follow. I'd need to know why an action is right if it goes against what I believe in, otherwise, no dice.
I think this sums it up quite nicely:

NIV Proverbs 19:2 It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way.
I think it is quite clear to a lot of people here how people have fallen into the traps outlined above.

I had spent the last hour typing out a full reply to your argument
You don't want to know the amount of time I've been spending typing out my replies. A full reply certainly is not necessary if you can condense it to essential points. I will agree with you that spending loads of time will prompt that sort of question you asked yourself, so I don't mind. In any case, maybe it'd be an idea to see what others have to think. Maybe people could argue cases with links to various sites more.

EDIT - I found this: http://www.tentmaker.org/books/hell-explained-bible-threatenings-explained.html

Although this article is EXTREMELY long, it may well explain what 'Hell' really is, and how it would work without contradicting the premise that God must be perfect/pure good/omnipotent/omniscient. Furthermore, with things being lost in translation, and people taking stuff said by God (any of the Trinity) too literally, or not realising that some of the stuff applies to the people actually being talked to, it may be possible to bring back the premise that God (the Trinity) does not lie in the Bible.

TBH, this take on the Bible fits with both of those premises. It's interesting when stuff such as Hell is referred to suffering on this world, and Hellfire is used to denote the judgment the people Jesus was talking to directly could face at the hands of other people of that time. It also states that people are going to be brought into judgment, and that doesn't start with dying and then being judged, that starts with people being brought into judgment by others on this world. After death, God would take over, but would continue to punish for as long as necessary to reform the sinner. Under this interpretation, there certainly would be no eternal suffering/annihilation, although there is a mention that God is technically capable of the latter (not surprising if someone is omnipotent, cancel immortality, then obliterate soul/body).
avatar
JDC


Posts : 166
Join date : 2011-05-25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: God

Post  Kakashi07 on 2012-02-08, 00:37

Occultdude17 wrote:JDC,
1) Q: Does God exist?

A: There is no direct evidence for his existence, of that we can be certain. At any rate, who cares? God keeps to himself, we should do likewise.
Hello.I just into this topic. Very Happy

-To clear things up even more,I will be presenting MY point of view,and since I'm not such a debate person I will mostly post links.

-For me as a Muslim YES god does exist.So I do believe in Jesus (as a prophet) and the existence of ONE CREATOR.
-I'm not seeking to convince anyone.(I really hope but its not for me to MAKE you decide).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y9hkiRZbRc


And here is also some links hope you could check.

http://www.allahexists.com/
http://islammyreligion.wordpress.com/2008/09/12/does-god-exist-proof-of-the-existence-of-god/
http://www.godallah.com/proof.php

I couldn't find some good English quality Videos a the moment but here what I can do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aszXCD2dPeE

I wont take much time from you and hope you check em all.
avatar
Kakashi07


Posts : 37
Birthday : 1992-09-24
Join date : 2011-09-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: God

Post  JDC on 2012-02-17, 06:38

Let's see if I can revive this topic.

Well, it seems that, although the writers of the Bible may have been inspired by God, they would still be writing as humans, without being directly controlled by God. This would mean that they suffer from making mistakes.

Cultures were very different back then, so a lot of stuff would be out of date. One of the biggest criticisms against the Bible is the treatment of homosexuals. I found this article:
http://www.minnpost.com/community-voices/2011/05/bible-and-homosexuality-selectively-plucking-passages-looks-seeking-divine-

Basically, a lot of stuff in the Old Testament would not apply today. Back then, there would be very little medical knowledge/medicine etc. So that would explain why things may have been the way they were back then as far as homosexuality is concerned.

BTW, I found this on that page:
http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/sexandgender/2826/does_the_bible_really_call_homosexuality_an_%E2%80%9Cabomination%E2%80%9D
"In it a Jewish Rabbi clarifies what the word "abomination" in the Hebrew "toevah" means. In short it means a "cultural taboo.""

Culture has changed, I hope, for the better. Some people are just made different ways. Hating on people just because they're different is an "abomination" as far as I'm concerned.

I already posted earlier on how eternal punishment of any form also seems to have been a pagan thing picked up, and a VERY severe distortion of the original Bible. I would strongly recommend looking into the Hebrew words that are translated into Hell in English bibles. I might post some more later in an edit.
avatar
JDC


Posts : 166
Join date : 2011-05-25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: God

Post  Occultdude17 on 2012-02-17, 17:11

Revive this topic? Why on Earth would you bother doing that? Everything reasonable has already been said, and everything unreasonable we can do without.
avatar
Occultdude17


Posts : 582
Join date : 2011-09-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: God

Post  Chiaki on 2012-02-19, 18:30

All right. Occultdude: I ask for something of you. You are brimming with confidence -- as brilliant as the sun! -- in your beliefs regarding this subject. Surely you can convince me, one on the other side of the fence, a very open-minded person that has thoroughly explored both sides of the coin, that you speak truth.

I offer a challenge of debate. However, this is not the typical sort, for your job is merely to convince me. God is out of the equation. As I have skill in roleplaying, I will play the part of the inquisitive youth, and you the one that is explaining these things to him. I will interview you, via a new thread, with a question or objection. You must satisfactorily answer or address it while adhering to the current subject. I promise never to reply out of character; that defeats the purpose entirely. Lastly, this thread must be locked solely to us for obvious reasons.

Surely such a thing -- since you speak so matter-of-factly -- would be very easy for you. After all, you have science to back you up!

Once again, God or any gods (and the Bible, for that matter) are out of the equation. We will play on your home turf. You have home field advantage. I have no problem changing my beliefs if they are proven to be foolish. What do you say?

Unless you feel my request is... unreasonable.
avatar
Chiaki


Posts : 236
Join date : 2011-07-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: God

Post  Cyrilla on 2012-02-19, 18:40

Debates like this always end with negative results. People are all different and have different beliefs, therefore it is impossible to conform every single person into one particular set of morals or religious beliefs. If you speak to someone that automatically assumes you and everything you think is foolish and wrong, any conversation or debate with them will not go much further than ‘I’m right - you’re wrong.”

Religion is a system of followers that attempt to remain on a particular set of morals due to their faith. Science is gathered information based on observation and experimentation. In fact, any branch in metaphysics will automatically be denied by any die-hard viewer in science because the objectivity is missing.


Now that I said the obvious, let me add one thing:

Hullo everyone~! <3
avatar
Cyrilla


Posts : 30
Birthday : 1992-01-26
Join date : 2012-02-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: God

Post  Occultdude17 on 2012-02-19, 23:29

Chiaki,

I believe what you are wanting is the Private Message system. Also, I'm not sure I understand what you want me to convince you of.
avatar
Occultdude17


Posts : 582
Join date : 2011-09-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: God

Post  JDC on 2012-02-20, 06:43

Occultdude17 wrote:Revive this topic? Why on Earth would you bother doing that? Everything reasonable has already been said, and everything unreasonable we can do without.
I doubt that 'everything reasonable' has already been said. There would be far more things that can be said (searching the Internet and getting links for example) would help to support the argument.

Cyrilla wrote:Religion is a system of followers that attempt to remain on a particular set of morals due to their faith. Science is gathered information based on observation and experimentation. In fact, any branch in metaphysics will automatically be denied by any die-hard viewer in science because the objectivity is missing.
One of the biggest things that keeps getting raised is the issue of 'faith'. I think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith would be a good start. From what I've seen regarding the topic question, it would seem the type of faith God is looking for is not the blind faith where you're supposed to believe in the existence of someone just because a book and other people say so. Any faith that I would have in God from the topic title would be based on evidence. It is possible for religion and science to co-exist. How would God try to convince people that he exists? Make a whole lot of (specific) prophecies, and the authors of the Bible write them down. Then, as every single prophecy becomes true, evidence to suggest God exists increases. Apparently, there's a quote in the Bible stating this intention explicitly, but I can't find it on Google right now.

What I've been doing myself is to try to search for the truth where the Bible appears to contradict the nature of God. If you look through my previous posts, there are several big things. There's a limit to how much an entity with infinite power/knowledge can have their motives figured out, and they would obviously act in strange ways we cannot understand. Then there's the doctrine of eternal pain and suffering which has to be false. It seems to have been something that crept into the Bible, and it is utterly inconsistent with the character of God. Despite the limitations humans have on understanding God, this is one of the doctrines that is blatantly false if God's character is accurate. I would not want to believe in a god that would actually seriously do this, nor would such a god every have any real respect from me. Similarly, I looked into the issue of treament towards homosexuals in the Bible, and I had to go to a translation from Hebrew to find that a specific passage referred to doing this as a 'cultural taboo', NOT an 'abomination'.

Occultdude17, it would seem to me that Chiaki wants to put your logical reasoning skills to the test in a separate debate (for which the Private Message system would be the best choice). This would appear to be, IMHO, to see whether Chiaki thinks you have been speaking truthfully.
avatar
JDC


Posts : 166
Join date : 2011-05-25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: God

Post  Occultdude17 on 2012-02-20, 23:34

I didn't mean it literally. Of course there's more reasonable stuff that could be said, I'm just sceptical that it's interesting enough to justify my continuing in this discussion.
avatar
Occultdude17


Posts : 582
Join date : 2011-09-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: God

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 11 of 11 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum