Anyone here a philosopher?

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Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  general on 2011-06-03, 01:45

Is anyone here interested in or has a passing fancy toward philosophy? My first philosophical book of sorts was Watchmen and philosophy in the pop culture and philosophy series and ever since I have regularly bought each new book that I find in the series and currently I am reading South Park and philosophy. I also took a philosophy course on Evil in my college and my professor was very good and made me interested in various views on evil given by various philosophers.

I would describe myself mostly as being a deontological person. That is, deontology is a system of ethics that judges the morality of an action based upon the actions adherence to rules or duties. However, I do not blindly follow those rules even if duty or the rules themselves demand I do so. I would then say that my deontological stance is a flexible one and that the duty or rules that I follow mainly come from my own view of the world and what is right and wrong.

I'd love to here any thoughts on this or if you have a different view on things please tell me as I love talking about philosophy.

some things I'd like to know from you:
1. what is your ethical view?
2. what are your views on good/evil?
3. who is your favorite philosopher and why?

I would have to say my favorite philospher would be Xun Zi. He advocated a view that people are neither good or evil but have self-serving attitudes. I tend to agree with this view but see it as saying that in the end people are not good or bad just trying to get by every day with as little trouble to themselves as possible and I can relate to and understand that. Besides Zi, I would say another favorite of mine would be Socrates, just because he is one of the more famous philosophical giants known and I have to admit his method is very interesting to me.

My view of good and evil tends to be gray and I usually take it at a case by case study. However things that I consider evil no matter what would be rape of all kinds, genocide, and child killing. As far as good is concerned, I am a deontologist so if any act has a good nature toward it and in no way violates my morals I consider it to be good.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Azareal on 2011-06-03, 04:42

1st things 1st, I live life based on my own philosophies and terminologies. I come up with interesting thoughts on the daily basis so im always writing down my thoughts as soon as I wake up, during the day and even before I sleep.

1. what is your ethical view? We are all human bottom line. Some people look better than other and other aren't as fortunate. One of my philosophies on that is that some the people that are physically attractive as well as the ones that aren't so physically, we exist for the sole purpose to show that "looks" are irrelevant. Its nothing wrong with looking good, its nothing letting yourself know that you know you look good but if you allow your looks to determine your worth so much that stops you from getting to know someone for who they are. Then your worthless because beauty is only skin deep and the ones worth being with will dig for a lifetime to find out how beautiful you really are. You gotta dig through the trash to get to the diamonds, dig for whats worth something.

2. what are your views on good/evil? Imma give you 2 of my quotes from my book.
"I have this philosophy, the Heart represents love and will power and the soul represents guidance and the mind. One cant function without the other. You need the soul to guide your love and to help you understand when to let go and keep you out of bad situations and you need love so that your soul doesn't become corrupted with negativity." -AzarealSimmons 5/5/11

"The Ying/Yang Philosophy = an "EVEN" balance of good & evil = honesty. Its a reason why Let Our Violence End & Having Anger Towards Everyone are both spelled with 4 letters. They are mirror images of each other. 1 never overpowering the other. If one dies, the other loses its reason to exist. We gotta co-exist or we wont exist." -AzarealSimmons 2/10/11

3. who is your favorite philosopher and why? Not to give off the impression of me "ego trippin" but I am my favorite philosopher. The reason i say that is Im inspired by life and I understand that my creativity is so vivid that I can take each animal of the Animal Kingdom, compare each one to each part of the Human Anatomy, compare that to life and have it make sense at the same-time. I havent witnessed anyone being THAT creative. So looking at it from an outside perspective, its impressive that someone can be that creative.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  NicR on 2011-06-09, 12:32

MY views on ethics are the same as my views on good and evil, which is non-existent. I believe that ethics and good/evil are simply human ideas to try to simplify the world, but in reality, they just over complicate things. If we were to look to say, Nazi Germany. If the Nazi's had won the war... the killing of Jews would have been ethical and good. However, since they lost, the world perceives it as total evil (I am NOT a Nazi or an Anti-Semite, I just picked a well known example, I am not advocating anything they did). In a book series I read, someone tells one of the antagonists what they are doing is wrong and destroying justice. He laughs and says "Whoever wins... is justice". Which is, in essence, how we view the world. Those who won are good, those who lost were evil. Ethics? If some one did something that benefits you... most usually will turn a blind eye to the harms created. The same goes for if it agrees with what you stand for. Both are simply human ideas that I believe are used to complicate and justify actions.

So far, my favorite book on philosophy is "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" by Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Kamatari on 2011-06-12, 00:41

I have a B in A-Level Philosophy! a B! No thats not impressive, Sorry.

View on Ethics eh? Well i would have to say I agree with NicR, Ethics are something that you construct individually, everyones opinion on what is right or wrong will be at least slightly diffent. Society of course will be the overwelming impact on this, and if Society gives you a bad hand..

This leads into the second question. I believe that every human is fundamentally good, that Evil exists out of circumstance. Even in the cases of the most psycotic villains in history, I believe they are acting out of totally wacked mental states, the "Human" in them being manipulated by their own Brain. This all ties in with my belief that we are more than just Flesh and Bone, that there is something that turns us from that into what we are. I like to think of it as a "Spark" to remove any religious connotations.

I am ashamed to say I have completely forgotten my Favourite Philosophers name, and a google search hasnt jogged my memory. He wrote an article on Non-Reductive Physicalism (In relation to the Mind) which I really felt I connected with, it seemed right to me. Oh well.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Halberdier on 2011-06-23, 21:08

1. I'm an idealist. I believe that the ends and the means are the same, which is something Gandhi said against the Machiavellian view that at least for a leader, the ends justify the means (in responsibility to your people). I don't think that anyone is justified in using morally questionable means to reach their preferable ends, because it would be better to act morally preferable to reach preferable ends, and as an idealist, I believe that is possible.

In fact, I believe that anything short of that will only be temporary, because the true foundation for peace, goodwill tolerance and such, can't properly exist without actions done in the same spirit (Pardon my use of the word spirit, as that wasn't a religious statement).

Going along with that last bit there, I'm ethnically Jewish, but quite a devout atheist. Desiderius Erasmus states that Religion at least should be a form of ignorance, because intellectual religion is just a bunch of conjecturing that can never actually amount to the blind faith that is required for proper religion. However, I disagree with him where he says that this faith sort of blind faith is good. I think that our responsibility as humans is to seek the truth, even if the truth is crushingly depressing.

If you can accept a wide breadth of knowledge from multiple perspectives (not the trivia sort, but more like human knowledge, like how people feel around you, and how you can be a good person), then you will be well on your way. Tragically, this knowledge is often not painless. Most people don't just suddenly wake up as good people. And not everyone is born into a good family. So sometimes, people feel pressured not to question their upbringing, or the things they take for granted that go around them, because if they did, the knowledge that it was bad, as well as the obligation to fix these things might be more than they could deal with.

And of course, not everyone wants to stop doing these bad things. Many people enjoy them (can you say war)? There hasn't been a satisfying antiwar movement in North America since Vietnam (where they realized that televising wars was dangerous), but that aside, there's still a good amount of war supporting nationalism.

I think this is a prime example one of the greatest problems we have. Instead of trying to judge or criticize or judge ourselves for proper examination, we'd rather just justify things the way they are. That's a small part of it, and the other part lays in the control of those who actually continue to make money off of what's still going on. (In war's case, the big oil CEO's and the arms dealers, etc.)

But in examining ourselves in a detached but reasonable way, we can find positive reasons to live that don't include logical fallacies or harm to others, and still incorporate things we enjoy. Returning to religion, I believe that it's one of the things that falls under a logical fallacy. And regardless of what you think, if religion is false, then it has distracted many people from actually looking at their lives and trying to improve them, by allowing them to think that the only solution they need is in a god.

Even if we end up getting into a debate of whether or not religion has been a force of good versus a force of evil, it has been a force of both. As well as a force to control people against their will. And as an idealist, I believe that a solution exists where we, as humans, do these good deeds that religion has sometimes gotten credit for, out of logic and proper ethics rather than for a church, because that way, at least we won't have to ignorantly fool people into good deeds.

If these sort of ignorances are bliss, I would opt to end them, and aim for an informed bliss, where we don't need to pretend anything isn't there, and we can be free to analyze or over analyze anything, and never find something to be ashamed of.


2. Socrates said "The unexamined life is not worth living." He stated that no knowledge or human concepts are absolute, especially because they differ from person to person, and all human knowledge and concepts are subject to change. That means that we must constantly be reviewing and judging ourselves, welcoming our knowledge and weighing ourselves against it. It is not necessary for one to do bad to understand good, or vice versa, because experience is not the only way to obtain knowledge, only one of them, as Kant's ideas of enlightened empiricism explain.

But as an addendum to this, there are key aspects that tie us together. Human nature is to broad a term, because human nature is also subjective. But for example, there are things that nearly all of us (humans) can draw from. These are basic things, appeals to all 5 senses. It sounds far fetched, but things as simple as the reassuring mutual appreciation for ice cream have stopped suicides. Or even more complex, Noam Chomsky's ideas of our unitedly similar psychology, that has created thousands of human languages with similar grammatical structures.

Because mutual bonds can be established like this, it is possible to judge things good or bad within reason. After all, like Protagoras said, "Humans are the measure of all things," so when most things seem subjective when it comes to differing human opinions, there can still be some things made more objective.

3. Noam Chomsky. He's probably explained the largest number of things that should be relevant to anyone in the western world. I probably mirror his and Tom Hayden's political views most, as a proponent of the New Left and Anarcho-syndicalism.

Also, for multiple reasons, philosophical included, I'm vegetarian, which guess I'll toss in here.

TL;DR: Gandhi is a cool guy. Religion sucks. Ignorant bliss is silly. The military sucks. Good and evil do exist on a level we can judge (sorta). I don't eat meat.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Skull Guardian on 2011-06-26, 19:16

1. I think this debate of right and wrong varies a lot its acceptance according to the ocassion and the people involved; nevertheless I also think that we need a system of rules, otherwise we'll just be living in anarchy.

2. Well,It would seem that "good" is all those qualities and virtues admired and desired by everyone; on the other hand "bad" being the degrading and shameful ones. I think we need to have both of them present in our lives, how else would we know the difference.

3. There comes a time when everyone ask themselves questions to which they have no good answer. It is then when we all look for guidance with people who have dedicated their lives trying to answer these questions; to me, one these people is Epicurus.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Phoenix Wright on 2011-06-26, 20:14

1. Ethical view, you can't prove the existence of anything but yourself, because you cannot prove anything can think even on a primitive level, the Truth(i.e. what is right and what is wrong) are based on what you believe and what you make of them. No one willingly does something they think is wrong. When it comes to philosophy "I think therefore I am" are words to live by.

2. Humans were once primates, not capable of a single sentient thought, we have kept some of our evolutionary brother's instincts, on of them is self service. No one in this world does anything unless it has some beneficial effect on themselves. Even charitable acts give you the benefit of happiness. This is not saying people are evil. This is just saying it is impossible for someone to be in our definition of "good"

3. Sigmund Freud, the naming of the Oedipus Syndrome showed the evolution of Man to be able to relate 2 unrelated things in a coherent way, also he had a lot of good things to say about reality

Albert Eisenstein, One of the greatest minds of the 20th century,not only in science, but in his views on religion and the hereafter. I am an atheist, but his faith in God even with his knowledge of physics never ceases to astound me
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  whysoserious on 2011-07-28, 13:15

1. I am nihilistic and skeptical about everything, even morals but that 'does not' mean I can not or should not choose to do/act good or be good or choose to do/act bad. Though you may question when it comes to the "good" I choose, who's interest am I acting the best on? Myself? Others? Anyone? Everyone? And I can ask them the same thing in response.

It's entirely up to me, my choices and what I choose to do with my life. But what others choose can and will affect my decisions and choices sometimes.

2. From my point of view, good and evil is irrelevant.

It just is. Just like "worth", "value", etc.,.. It' just what ever you believe or choose to believe, accept and agree on.

I however have always agreed on 1 universal rule that is constant and will always exist even if every single other rule were gone completely, and that is:

"Survival of the fittest" (well you can say the survival of the luckiest too, if you believe in any sort of luck)

Why? From my point of view, and because I'm very cynical, it is because people are selfish or at least can be.

I just do what ever I must or feel I must, and what ever it takes and what ever it costs in order to survive, regardless if it was good, bad, right or wrong.

Don't get me wrong I am more prudent than reckless I analyze all of the options available and look at all the possible consequences and potential drawbacks. It's just the "big picture" the long term that really matters most to me.

Or I simply do nothing and nothing happens or changes at all, and chances are if I choose this then I would not survive, at least not for long anyway.

3. All of the existential, skeptical philosophers that question what is the whole point of everything and anything that exists. It's hard for me to choose, but if you want to know I'll just say Emil M. Cioran and Arthur Schopenhauer

Actually I think Cioran would be an "anti" philospher.

BTW here's a few quotes from The Dark Knight regarding morals, or morality:

The world is cruel, and the only morality in a cruel world is chance. Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair.

Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, then everything becomes…chaos. I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It's fair.

Don't talk like you're one of them! You're not... even if you'd like to be. To them you're just a freak, like me. They need you right now, but when they don't, they'll cast you out. Like a leper. See, their morals, their "code"... it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're "only as good as the world allows them to be". I'll show you. When the chips are down, these uh, these "civilized people", they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  aquabass on 2011-08-13, 05:02

1. what is your ethical view? - Ethical view eh? Tv and Radio makes most people's ethical view's and those view's are to reject the unknown and the scary not gonna post here then ~ lol
2. what are your views on good/evil? - good and evil eh? this ones funny some are a Hitler some are Ghandi what seperates them I'd have to say nothing they're the same comparing someone who did "good" and "evil" is based on what we've been adjusted to believe is good and evil very few can have independent thought lol and I dont know if conditioning exists but I do know that Republicans still win elections :)and that to many Americans still believe they have a choice in who they pick as their president ^^. what makes good and evil is how strong your sense of belief is ^^ and let the more conscious mind win.
3. who is your favorite philosopher and why? - wtf? Its obvious!

William Hazlitt

Ignorance of the world leaves one at the mercy of its malice.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Phoenix on 2011-08-13, 06:07

hi^^

Ethically i believe life is a never ending journey. whether death exists or doesn't still remains a peril through the journey. Either fearing the solitude and emptiness of denying death or hoping for some sanctitude and justice. It is all so true that the world is so small compared to the universe. We have a long way to go before we make any mark in this place. This place which just happens to exist through the process of mere chance. And our existence without death brings purposeless. Without purpose we have "evolved" into creatures that dont need to exist. And so no ethics among so called "humanity" remain. And therefore i'd rather die believing in god (with purpose in life) and find out there isn't; which actually cant do much harm if i dont yet exist. Instead of not believing in god and finding out one exists. Now simply the choice remains. Which one?

Good and evil can only be decided by the purest of heart because as ppl get older they become influenced and tainted by everything whether presumably good or bad. So we cant decide what is good or bad. In our soceity why is it wrong to destroy embryo's or marry our sisters? I can tell you for sure some ppl will say its good and others bad. Everyone has been influenced in so many ways. Out of it all though, i can say what i believe is good or evil. But would you agree?

Lastly i cant choose. I find it hard to pick between ppl.

P.S I hope it wasnt too long^^
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  aquabass on 2011-08-13, 06:10

it can never be to long o.o
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Gaff on 2011-08-24, 11:47

I wouldn't call myself a philosopher as such but a guy who thinks too much

1. what is your ethical view?

I believe everyone should be equal, etc etc, that people on tv aka celebrities shouldn't been as so important, especially more important than the law sometimes and the people supposedly running the country. The world sucks so you get used to it but you kinda wish things were different I guess. Humanity is full of "sin" and ain't nobody telling me different. We're all bad people in our own way, it's what makes us good people that makes us who we are. Or summat.

2. what are your views on good/evil?

No such thing. Good and Evil is perspective. There is no overlurking good and evil on this planet. Just people trying to do what they think is right. Whether that's good or evil is up to whoever is taking in a situation, analysing it if you will.

3. who is your favorite philosopher and why?

Me, cos I'm cool Wink

Jks don't really have one since I'm just a casual guy who thinks too much about stuff. Though I'd gladly read some online articles if you'd give me a buzz.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Halberdier on 2011-10-02, 00:54

I saw someone say survival of the luckiest somewhere up there.


I'm just going to say that survival of the fittest works over time, and is trended to work regardless of luck.

In math, it's called the principle of large numbers, or something. Basically, the more times you roll a properly weighted dice, the more likely you are to get each number the same number of times.

That's also how survival of the fittest works. The more times the fittest are tested in their mettle against those less fit, the more consistently they will emerge ahead.

Though human society pretty much redefines fit as an evolutionary term.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  aquabass on 2011-10-02, 01:02

Halberdier wrote:I saw someone say survival of the luckiest somewhere up there.


I'm just going to say that survival of the fittest works over time, and is trended to work regardless of luck.

In math, it's called the principle of large numbers, or something. Basically, the more times you roll a properly weighted dice, the more likely you are to get each number the same number of times.

That's also how survival of the fittest works. The more times the fittest are tested in their mettle against those less fit, the more consistently they will emerge ahead.

Though human society pretty much redefines fit as an evolutionary term.
Human Society can best be described as the greatest virus ever created.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Potus-Mat on 2011-10-02, 01:07

Well, I personally loath philosophy, it being but the placenta of Science, but I have read philosophical texts. Well, enough to know the Socrates is awesome and Aristotle is a narcissistic idiot.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  ZoidsBN on 2011-10-02, 01:18

some things I'd like to know from you:
1. what is your ethical view?
Ethics.....Well there are the simple ethical rules that we learn as children but to me as long as you keep to yourself and help those you know then everything will be fine. There are exceptions though like in the case of an emergency or tragedy. To make my view simple you simply have to decide for yourself what your ethics are and forge your own path off of your decisions.

2. what are your views on good/evil?
A good question. What one person deems good another person will declare it evil. For example. During the Crusades people believed that killing eachother in the name of God was "Good" and justified. However in this day in age we see that it was just mindless war and we identified such acts as "Evil". "Good" and "Evil" are two sides of the same coin. You cant escape that fact that this two is again Man made.

3. who is your favorite philosopher and why?
To be honest I dont really pay attention to past Philosophers. I just think with logic and concentrate on the deeper parts of situations. However off the top of my head I would say Sun Tzu. I learned about him as the great Chinese General and Philosopher however Im not 100% sure if Im right about that.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Potus-Mat on 2011-10-02, 01:21

1.) Some ethics are natural instincts, and some are just laws to control people.
2.) Ultimately, there is no good nor evil, but in a biologic sense, good would be what goes to perpetuate the species and evil would be the counter-productive.
3.) Socrates. He was neither arrogant nor moronic, and accepted death with open hands.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  nsanejokr on 2011-10-02, 01:48

1. For the most part I just follow the Golden Rule. It's obviously not going to easily answer any ethical concern, but it's certainly what many ethical theories are built on.

2. Pretty sure this runs right into question 1. There's a lot of subjectivity to what is Good or Evil, but there's also a lot of consistency. Generally we find it evil to murder, rape, steal from, etc. agents that are worthy of moral consideration. However, a big issue is deciding which agents are worthy. After all, Nazi Germany would've found it evil to kill good Germans as they were worthy, but obviously be willing to kill Jews since Nazis don't perceive Jews as worthy. So really, the acts themselves aren't labeled as Good or Evil until it's decided who exactly is being acted upon.

3. Probably Nietzsche, but that's more for how entertaining his writing and ideas are rather than for the substance of the ideas.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Alchemical Magician on 2011-10-02, 02:04

When I duel, i would like to follow the words of the great Karl Marx: "Revolution is inevitable" (my revolution to the world will begin with my main deck)
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  nibf on 2011-10-31, 02:34

Ethics is hard to define such term due to the fact that everyone is not raised in the same environment. To some culture their norms is taboo for others. But if i had a test on "ethics" tomorrow morning i would fail. To me ethic is doing something that you feel is right and do not ever once regret what you have done. (unless you're psycho). Right and wrong are also hard to put a boundary. Sometimes the lines mesh together making it impossible to distinguish. Right is what society believes is right, wrong is what society believes is wrong. Society makes the laws and those who inhabits must abide by the laws. Killing with bad intentions vs killing with good intentions are both killing. So if you want to end someone's misery DON'T!!! Let them end it themselves. My favorite philosopher is myself, because I want to be able to think what is the best way for me to live, I like other philosophers but it doesn't feel right with me.

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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  S.S.A. on 2011-10-31, 10:16

nsanejokr wrote:1. For the most part I just follow the Golden Rule. It's obviously not going to easily answer any ethical concern, but it's certainly what many ethical theories are built on.

2. Pretty sure this runs right into question 1. There's a lot of subjectivity to what is Good or Evil, but there's also a lot of consistency. Generally we find it evil to murder, rape, steal from, etc. agents that are worthy of moral consideration. However, a big issue is deciding which agents are worthy. After all, Nazi Germany would've found it evil to kill good Germans as they were worthy, but obviously be willing to kill Jews since Nazis don't perceive Jews as worthy. So really, the acts themselves aren't labeled as Good or Evil until it's decided who exactly is being acted upon.

3. Probably Nietzsche, but that's more for how entertaining his writing and ideas are rather than for the substance of the ideas.

read kant, if your ethics are the golden rule your ethics are kant
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Potus-Mat on 2011-10-31, 19:43

S.S. Anaconda wrote:
nsanejokr wrote:1. For the most part I just follow the Golden Rule. It's obviously not going to easily answer any ethical concern, but it's certainly what many ethical theories are built on.
2. Pretty sure this runs right into question 1. There's a lot of subjectivity to what is Good or Evil, but there's also a lot of consistency. Generally we find it evil to murder, rape, steal from, etc. agents that are worthy of moral consideration. However, a big issue is deciding which agents are worthy. After all, Nazi Germany would've found it evil to kill good Germans as they were worthy, but obviously be willing to kill Jews since Nazis don't perceive Jews as worthy. So really, the acts themselves aren't labeled as Good or Evil until it's decided who exactly is being acted upon.
3. Probably Nietzsche, but that's more for how entertaining his writing and ideas are rather than for the substance of the ideas.
read kant, if your ethics are the golden rule your ethics are kant
The problem with aligning yourself with one philosopher is that, while some of them have legitimate points, they all have absolutely ridiculous notions.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Occultdude17 on 2011-11-03, 21:23

I got bumped after 15 minutes, so this is the short version of my answer.

1) Don't rape, abuse children/animals/spouses/employees, poach animals, destroy ecosystems or cheat at games. If you break one of those, I'll probably kill you.

2) Good vs. Evil is a load of rubbish. People's standards are arbitrary and inconsistent. The Law says one thing, my Boss says another, God has yet a third opinion... I just give them all the finger and do whatever I want.

3) As far as I'm concerned, Philosophy, Theology, Politics and Masturbation are all one and the same. Philosophers tend to ask dumb questions that have a blatantly obvious answer, their premises fall apart when examined scientifically and on top of that they waste my time by trying to continue a discussion as if I hadn't just shut it down with simple logic.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  DarkRiku on 2011-11-04, 02:01

So to sum up all these post the Universe is in Chaos because everyone's view of it is different and how it works.

Even absolute proof of something can be different from what people think of it.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  S.S.A. on 2011-11-04, 12:19

Occultdude17 wrote:I got bumped after 15 minutes, so this is the short version of my answer.

1) Don't rape, abuse children/animals/spouses/employees, poach animals, destroy ecosystems or cheat at games. If you break one of those, I'll probably kill you.

2) Good vs. Evil is a load of rubbish. People's standards are arbitrary and inconsistent. The Law says one thing, my Boss says another, God has yet a third opinion... I just give them all the finger and do whatever I want.

3) As far as I'm concerned, Philosophy, Theology, Politics and Masturbation are all one and the same. Philosophers tend to ask dumb questions that have a blatantly obvious answer, their premises fall apart when examined scientifically and on top of that they waste my time by trying to continue a discussion as if I hadn't just shut it down with simple logic.

im studing newton and einstein in my philosophy classes, and aristotle is the founder of logic and induction techniques used by scientists today, your scientific examination would not be possible without philosophers who came before you, also francis bacon, the guy who invented the scientific method? also a philosopher

your "philosophy" is unsophisticated and situational. i reject it in favor of kant nieztche and kierkagaard, with alittle aristotle and augustine just for shiggles, (what i mean is, follow the golden rule, make sure you act without hesitation and with confidence that everthing will turn out right, and make sure you value your friendships highly, and maintain a well ordered soul)
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Occultdude17 on 2011-11-05, 17:56

S.S. Anaconda wrote:
Occultdude17 wrote:I got bumped after 15 minutes, so this is the short version of my answer.

1) Don't rape, abuse children/animals/spouses/employees, poach animals, destroy ecosystems or cheat at games. If you break one of those, I'll probably kill you.

2) Good vs. Evil is a load of rubbish. People's standards are arbitrary and inconsistent. The Law says one thing, my Boss says another, God has yet a third opinion... I just give them all the finger and do whatever I want.

3) As far as I'm concerned, Philosophy, Theology, Politics and Masturbation are all one and the same. Philosophers tend to ask dumb questions that have a blatantly obvious answer, their premises fall apart when examined scientifically and on top of that they waste my time by trying to continue a discussion as if I hadn't just shut it down with simple logic.

im studing newton and einstein in my philosophy classes, and aristotle is the founder of logic and induction techniques used by scientists today, your scientific examination would not be possible without philosophers who came before you, also francis bacon, the guy who invented the scientific method? also a philosopher

your "philosophy" is unsophisticated and situational. i reject it in favor of kant nieztche and kierkagaard, with alittle aristotle and augustine just for shiggles, (what i mean is, follow the golden rule, make sure you act without hesitation and with confidence that everthing will turn out right, and make sure you value your friendships highly, and maintain a well ordered soul)

You're making an argument from authority. Because some notable scientist dabbled in philosophy or vice-versa, that therefore makes the subject of philosophy valid. Let's assume this is true, and examine the implications.

Newton devised most of our laws of motion, but he also dabbled in Alchemy. Alchemy is therefore a real subject, despite being based on disproved/superstitious principles.

Aristotle devised logic (I'll accept this as true for argument's sake), but he also claimed that the Sun goes around the Earth, matter can be divided indefinitely, and that the entire world can be figured out with pure thought without the need for experimentation. Too bad if you're a fan of the scientific method.

Einstein devised the Special and General Theories of Relativity, but didn't believe in the randomness of Quantum Mechanics and was reluctant to accept Black Holes and the Expansion of the Universe. Makes you wonder how our electronic devices work, given as they're based on Quantum Mechanics.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  S.S.A. on 2011-11-06, 22:05

you my friend are a primary example of whiggish history when looking at science. mathmatically speaking it was not provable that the earth went around the sun until kepler was able to examine the universe with measurements that rival modern ones. by saying that aristotle and newton are irrelevant because of alchemy and the sun, is an ignorant standpoint because observationally aristotles universe, for the most part, makes an incredible amount of sense. and if you want to talk about aritotle, remember that he also is the founder of biology, and that his universe has a remarkable amount of similiarities with what we now know it to be even with the earth being in the wrong place, although the reason he thought the earth was in the center was because of his physics, and not because of the fact that he thought the sun moved, and ptolomy who was around at much the same time, determined it didnt much matter what went around what, but the earth should stay at the center for the help in physics because of the lack of a theory of gravity. bouncing around further aristotle was an empiricist, so your just plain wrong about the pure thought thing, thats more plato than aristotle, but you have to go to descartes to find a pure rationalist. aristotle expirimented heavily in biology, and only lightly in physics which is probably where your claim comes from, and he is discounted in a lot of ways because of his incorrect formulas for gravity which he did not test, but he also didnt care to test, because he knew that with the technology avaliable to him getting answers that were accurate and consistant enough for his standards would be impossible, so he did not bother. and one expiriment he is heavily critisized for is his dropping of balls into liquids of different densities, because none of his numbers work out properly, but the expiriment was a success, because he just wanted the fact that there was an existance of a change in speed not to acctually know what it was, because in physics aristotle DID NOT care about controlled expiriments because he was not interested in how things worked inside of a labratory, he wanted to know how it worked in real life, outside of one. additionally if you want to discount alchemy, then you have to discount the entire subject that was born out of it, chemistry. alchemists were the early chemists, and modern chemists today are going back through newtons old recipes to see what he did discover.

because i didnt actually define whiggish history, its looking back at the past with a 'winners win' lens saying that because they were wrong they were stupid (exactly what you said with aristotle) rather than seeing the genius that led to what they did discover, and heres some other interesting facts, newton is so smart, that when we talked about how smart he was, i felt like i might as well be illiterate. galileo was the same level of frighteningly smart and he firmly believed that the planets moved in perfect circles, does that make him stupid? no it means he was wrong about one little thing. copernicus also had some glaring lapse in his sciecne but i forget exactly what it is.

i cant speak to einstein i know pitifully little about quantum mech and those other modern topics. they dont really interest me particularly

also it wasnt that philosophers dabbled in science or scientists dabbled in philosophy, until the modern era, science and philosophy were one and the same
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Potus-Mat on 2011-11-06, 23:09

Aristotle gained clout by ripping off Plato and Socrates, making up absolute crap that could not be refuted, and insulting anyone who disagreed. Father of logic? Bah! Father of truthiness is more like it.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  S.S.A. on 2011-11-06, 23:28

Potus-Mat wrote:Aristotle gained clout by ripping off Plato and Socrates, making up absolute crap that could not be refuted, and insulting anyone who disagreed. Father of logic? Bah! Father of truthiness is more like it.

not altogether untrue! lol, but he was right about a surprising amount of things, and while i dont deny for a second he drew from plato, as plato WAS his teacher, they differed very much on the way they looked at the world and the way they examined it
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Potus-Mat on 2011-11-06, 23:31

S.S. Anaconda wrote:
Potus-Mat wrote:Aristotle gained clout by ripping off Plato and Socrates, making up absolute crap that could not be refuted, and insulting anyone who disagreed. Father of logic? Bah! Father of truthiness is more like it.
not altogether untrue! lol, but he was right about a surprising amount of things, and while i dont deny for a second he drew from plato, as plato WAS his teacher, they differed very much on the way they looked at the world and the way they examined it
Plato actually shut his mouth for a second and listened to his teacher, and actually managed to write a tolerable philosophical text. Plato looked at the world and tried to figure out what it all meant; Aristotle looked at the world and tried to figure out how to make himself look good.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Occultdude17 on 2011-11-07, 00:17

I must have been unclear in my post. I was not meaning to discredit the legitimate discoveries made by any of those people. My point was that good ideas stand alone, they do not validate bad ones. Just because they made useful discoveries doesn't mean their other crap is true. My main issue with Aristotle relates to his methods, which I consider unscientific as he makes assumptions without cause.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  S.S.A. on 2011-11-07, 00:18

im curious as to where your getting that from? edit to potus

Occultdude17 wrote:I must have been unclear in my post. I was not meaning to discredit the legitimate discoveries made by any of those people. My point was that good ideas stand alone, they do not validate bad ones. Just because they made useful discoveries doesn't mean their other crap is true. My main issue with Aristotle relates to his methods, which I consider unscientific as he makes assumptions without cause.

then what do you say to the expiriment he ran where every few hours he broke open a chicken egg to study the development? if anything aristotle was a biologist not a physicist. also his physics DID have causes, just not ones that are concidered valid today, that doesnt give you any reason to discount him as an intellectual. he explained his world as best he could with the information he had avaliable. had he better tools to work with he would have come up with much more accurate findings, which is acctually also said by galileo in one of his books
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Potus-Mat on 2011-11-07, 00:35

I read the Republic, and I read the Ethics. Guess which one I left intact.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  S.S.A. on 2011-11-07, 01:08

Potus-Mat wrote:I read the Republic, and I read the Ethics. Guess which one I left intact.

also read republic and ethics, lol. but ill leave you this, im guessing you reach nichomachean ethics (sp?) are you aware that that book was published by his son after editing what amounts to class notes from listening to aristotle lecture, and it is not a treatise published by the man himself

edit, and you didnt answer why you think aristotle was out to make a quick buck, when plato, who wrote the republic based on a lecture of HIS OWN TEACHER, is just trying to spread knowledge
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Potus-Mat on 2011-11-07, 17:31

Plato realized that what Socrates was saying was pretty dang neat, and, due to a bad batch of wine, Socrates could not exactly write it himself. Aristotle, his ideas, his thoughts, his writings, whatever, they are all crap. He is absurdly arrogant and moronic.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  S.S.A. on 2011-11-07, 17:46

socrates actually refused to write it himself, his dying just allowed plato to publish it himself. and im interested in how you get that from ethics when aristotle didnt even write ethics, it was just published in his name.

im legitimently curious, and while i dont mind aristotle, i wouldnt say im his biggest fan either
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  whitelightning31 on 2011-12-02, 02:39

there is no good and evil.....sure certain things people might do will be really f'edup, but they're just people fighting for what they believe in........i wouldnt tolerate what that person did but i most likely will respect them for standing what they believe is right.

if society calls someone a monster.....then that person will be deemed a monster by the world.........should i just go along with everything and dont even take time to understand that person......cause sometimes people are also just horribly misunderstood.

i might offend some of you but i dont mean too....i'm stressing a point.
eg, hitler;
sure he was really a monster....but i respected him, not because of all the havoc he cause, but because he was able to stand for what he believed and gain an entire army in the making......that's a really strong resolve.
again....i'm sry if i offended anyone/all of you but i'm making a point.

countless people goes into a court room and is deemed 'innocent' but in reality they really are guilty but just know how to 'beat the system'. where's the justice?......should i call the person a angel because the 'rulers' deemed them as innocent?.......right and wrong is what you believe in, different people have different believes so that's where the 'confusion' starts.

i prefer using my own discretion.....but at the end of the day if someone in the world can disagrees with my 'right' then it isnt really 'right' because they wouldnt of opposed it.....it's just really what i believe, and what they believe.......

sure somethings i said might contradict each but i can explain......but i'm not going too cause then i'll end up having a long conversation with someone and i really dislike reading anything that's long.....
i didnt even read anything here, i just browsed the first post a little and that's it.......
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Occultdude17 on 2011-12-02, 20:33

whitelightning31 wrote:there is no good and evil.....sure certain things people might do will be really f'edup, but they're just people fighting for what they believe in........i wouldnt tolerate what that person did but i most likely will respect them for standing what they believe is right.

if society calls someone a monster.....then that person will be deemed a monster by the world.........should i just go along with everything and dont even take time to understand that person......cause sometimes people are also just horribly misunderstood.

i might offend some of you but i dont mean too....i'm stressing a point.
eg, hitler;
sure he was really a monster....but i respected him, not because of all the havoc he cause, but because he was able to stand for what he believed and gain an entire army in the making......that's a really strong resolve.
again....i'm sry if i offended anyone/all of you but i'm making a point.

countless people goes into a court room and is deemed 'innocent' but in reality they really are guilty but just know how to 'beat the system'. where's the justice?......should i call the person a angel because the 'rulers' deemed them as innocent?.......right and wrong is what you believe in, different people have different believes so that's where the 'confusion' starts.

i prefer using my own discretion.....but at the end of the day if someone in the world can disagrees with my 'right' then it isnt really 'right' because they wouldnt of opposed it.....it's just really what i believe, and what they believe.......

sure somethings i said might contradict each but i can explain......but i'm not going too cause then i'll end up having a long conversation with someone and i really dislike reading anything that's long.....
i didnt even read anything here, i just browsed the first post a little and that's it.......

I would actually go further than that. "Good and Evil" is a destructive and unnatural concept that forces us to choose sides and make judgements about stuff we really don't care about.

I instead use the idea of "Behavioural Pizza Toppings". Everybody likes their pizza different, and the same goes for how we view other people's behaviour. I don't like chewing gum, abortion, binge-drinking or religion. I could either label the people who do as evil and get all worked up about it, or I could just not eat any of their pizza.

The only time I would take issue is if somebody is being forced to consume a pizza they don't like, and they haven't done anything in my books to deserve it. For example, I don't like children being killed, but I have no problem with child abusers suffering the same fate. That's just how I like my pizza.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  Potus-Mat on 2011-12-02, 21:16

whitelightning31 wrote:there is no good and evil.....sure certain things people might do will be really f'edup, but they're just people fighting for what they believe in........i wouldnt tolerate what that person did but i most likely will respect them for standing what they believe is right.
This is in itself a statement that requires an understanding of Good and Evil to say. If the action is "f'edup", as you say, it must be Evil. Therefore, you yourself believe in Good and Evil.
whitelightning31 wrote:countless people goes into a court room and is deemed 'innocent' but in reality they really are guilty but just know how to 'beat the system'. where's the justice?......should i call the person a angel because the 'rulers' deemed them as innocent?.......right and wrong is what you believe in, different people have different believes so that's where the 'confusion' starts.
Again, this in itself requires a view on Good and Evil, or at least Justice, a subsidiary of Good, Inc.
Good and Evil are concepts that exist, yes. They are warped to the context, however.
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Re: Anyone here a philosopher?

Post  whitelightning31 on 2011-12-03, 00:30

Occultdude17 wrote:
I would actually go further than that.
i could of myself but i didnt....but judging from your 'logic', i think our 'ideals' arent too far away.....if not, probably the same.


Potus-Mat wrote:
This is in itself a statement that requires an understanding of Good and Evil to say. If the action is "f'edup", as you say, it must be Evil. Therefore, you yourself believe in Good and Evil.
as i said before....it wouldnt really be good or evil, it'll just be about what one believes.
eg;
if a serial killer is killing people because he says it's the right thing to do, that a 'higher being' told him to do so.....do you think he have a understanding of good and evil?.....it's all about what we believe and in reality, it's all about what 'society' say is 'right' and 'wrong'.



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