Discard hand RANDOMLY

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Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  kangtuji on 2011-11-06, 02:56

So, I've meet this Dark World deck

I lost @jankenpon

[Opp] Turn 1 : Set one card
[opp] turn 1 : end phase
[me] Turn 2: draw
[opp] Turn 2: Flip set card... its Mind Crush and declare MST
[me] Turn 2 : Show hand

[opp] Turn 2 : AT HIS OWN WILL ( Not fliping coin, not asking opp, no rolling dice or whatever ) just DISCARDED SNOWW


WTF !!!

[me] : RAGEQUIT !

*No picture* because I was too raging, cann't think clearly against netdecker and do swearing silent





Drama aside...

Could you add feature "Discard a card from hand RANDOMLY" in order to avoid argument with this kind of enemies which I don't think he even read his own card / not knowing what is "RANDOMLY" means or supposed to
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Tsunayoshi on 2011-11-06, 03:54

Problem. There is no way to do that really even in real life. Why should the game change for something that someone would do in real life.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  kangtuji on 2011-11-06, 04:26

Real life, you can put cards on table face-down, and scatter, shuffle, scatter or whatever

or even better let your'e opp sccater you're card, and viola, you can discard randomly

In DN... where you cann't even pick monster position, its unpossible (yes, I write Un-possible instead impossible)
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  isaac on 2011-11-06, 12:27

Just shuffle your hand before they discard, kid.

And when they say "random" it means the opp chooses from your card backs.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  raidou on 2011-11-06, 13:07

you probably didnt know it but thats the reason you can highlight a card in opponent hand
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Tsunayoshi on 2011-11-06, 14:31

Problem. Mind Crush tells the controlling player to discard a card from their hand randomly. The discard is not up to the opponent.

I've been saying for a while that they need to remove the word 'randomly' from the card because the average player will discard a card from their hand that they want.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  raidou on 2011-11-06, 14:54

you arent making any sense, why remove the word explaining a player ' you dont get to choose what to discard'?
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Tsunayoshi on 2011-11-06, 15:06

raidou wrote:you arent making any sense, why remove the word explaining a player ' you dont get to choose what to discard'?

Guess you never read Mind Crush before. Here is the card text for you.

Declare 1 card name; if that card is in your opponent's hand, they must discard all copies of it from their hand to the Graveyard, otherwise you discard 1 random card.

The player that activates Mind Crush is the one that gets to discard, if they call wrong.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  The DetonatorCOPY on 2011-11-06, 15:09

Correct, mind crush involves no random discarding.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  dest on 2011-11-06, 15:22

eh... sure it does

Declare 1 card name; if that card is in your opponent's hand, they must discard all copies of it from their hand to the Graveyard, otherwise you discard 1 random card.

what else does this random mean^^
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  raidou on 2011-11-06, 15:32

Tsunayoshi wrote:
raidou wrote:you arent making any sense, why remove the word explaining a player ' you dont get to choose what to discard'?

Guess you never read Mind Crush before. Here is the card text for you.

Declare 1 card name; if that card is in your opponent's hand, they must discard all copies of it from their hand to the Graveyard, otherwise you discard 1 random card.

The player that activates Mind Crush is the one that gets to discard, if they call wrong.


i dont get it you finally read mind crush text it says discard 1 random card





why do you say the word random should be removed ? that would change how mind crush works

thats why you arent making any sense you want that part removed even when you know the discard is at random


how a player would know is at random if that text is removed?




The player that activates Mind Crush is the one that gets to discard, if they call wrong.

thank you captain obvious
go back reading mind crush again


otherwise you discard 1 random card.


that why the word 'you 'is in there



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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  kangtuji on 2011-11-06, 16:25

isaac wrote:Just shuffle your hand before they discard, kid.

And when they say "random" it means the opp chooses from your card backs.

raidou wrote: you probably didnt know it but thats the reason you can highlight a card in opponent hand


Let me pointing again, usually I would pick my opp card randomly by selecting random card, but this would be lead to an argument to bad players because the card said "You" instead "Your opp"

Other method I use if I discarding my own random card was using dice roll if I has more than 2 cards, or flip the coins if I only had 2 cards. (But I don't think other player would do same trick)


Also theres are some another card has the effect discard card randomly from hand, not just only mind crush.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  raidou on 2011-11-06, 16:33

letting your opponent pick a card from your hand after shuffling it is just a way to make it random



is the same as when we use power tool dragon by sending 3 equips to grave tell opponent 2 numbers for each one from 1 to 6 and just roll a dice

i never had any problems when resolving this type of effects
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  kangtuji on 2011-11-06, 16:40

Yes we, good player, would have never such problem ... but...

The problem is...
bad player wont do those "random" discarding and discarding with his own will.

Either they doesn't read the card or just bad player, or any other circumstates I don't know... I am not meaning to be a rule sharking, but I do objection if my opp discarding any card he pleases to gain his advantage

So... tldr; How do we fix this ?
Ragequit ? Doesn't sounds like solution
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  3E-hero neos on 2011-11-06, 17:11

Step 1: Shuffle your hand.
Step 2: Let your opponent select 1 cardback.

It's still random, opp involved but it's fair enough.
I don't think the coding is worth it.

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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  kangtuji on 2011-11-06, 17:34

Again, the problem is
Opp: "Oh screw those steps, I'll just discard a card pleases me and give me advantage on my own will"

This is not even suggestion for benefiting good player, its suggestion for fixing bad player. A Win-Win solution

No rule sharking either,
(atleast this is no more complicated as solemn warning like... fusion summon a monster, opp flip solemn warning, me giving long explaination why, later.. 'oh I solem the poly'. And they call me rule sharking..)
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  The DetonatorCOPY on 2011-11-06, 18:13

Oh wow i cant read o.O thats bad of me.

But yes the above works fine. Its how its done in real life and its how its done here. If you have a problem call staff to your duel.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Tsunayoshi on 2011-11-06, 18:26

If Konami wants to fix the card to make it work as intended, they have to make an errata to the card one way or another. They either need to change it so that the controlling player discards a card, taking the word random out because it only leads to confusion and crap like this, or change the text to make the discard be at the opponents discretion.

I will, until one of the above erratas happen, continue to resolve the effect as printed on the card. There is no way to get a random discard with your own hand.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Miror B. on 2011-11-06, 18:45

Tsunayoshi wrote:If Konami wants to fix the card to make it work as intended, they have to make an errata to the card one way or another.

The card is intended to discard randomly. That's it. Whether it's random by the opponent picking or by you throwing down your hand facedown, shuffling the cards up and picking a random card, that's it. The only real way to do random on DN is by the opponent picking with the hand still concealed, thus that is how it should be done. If somebody decides to pick a card themselves while viewing the hand, it is not random and thus not what they intended.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Tsunayoshi on 2011-11-06, 18:57

Miror B. wrote:
Tsunayoshi wrote:If Konami wants to fix the card to make it work as intended, they have to make an errata to the card one way or another.

The card is intended to discard randomly. That's it. Whether it's random by the opponent picking or by you throwing down your hand facedown, shuffling the cards up and picking a random card, that's it. The only real way to do random on DN is by the opponent picking with the hand still concealed, thus that is how it should be done. If somebody decides to pick a card themselves while viewing the hand, it is not random and thus not what they intended.

Then Konami should have printed that the opponent should discard if they wanted it to be random. Not put the discard in the hand of the player that activates Mind Crush.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  TheBlackRoseGuy on 2011-11-06, 19:07

I think there should be a feature of this.

In RL, this wouldn't be too much of a problem, since you just put ur cards facedown. However, in DN, since a lot of people are newbies or ignorant, they will say "it doesn't you choose", thus creating problems and possibly quit. Right now opponent picking is the best option for randomness, but not every1 will agree to it.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  raidou on 2011-11-06, 19:20

.....k now i know something is wrong with tsuna


he is the kind of people who invents an error if he cant find one so he can complain about it



no idea why he thinks the method to choose the random card is so important as long as the player whos supposed to discard at random doesnt choose which one discard, how the card is chosen doesnt matter



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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Miror B. on 2011-11-06, 19:27

Random implies that you are not able to choose specifically which one you pick. You have to pick one without knowing what you are picking. How would you do that on DN as it is now? Close your eyes and click? I'm not trusting somebody to do that. I'll let my opponent randomly discard when I'm supposed to discard, so long as it's a card from my hand going to the Graveyard.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Tsunayoshi on 2011-11-06, 21:06

raidou wrote:.....k now i know something is wrong with tsuna


he is the kind of people who invents an error if he cant find one so he can complain about it



no idea why he thinks the method to choose the random card is so important as long as the player whos supposed to discard at random doesnt choose which one discard, how the card is chosen doesnt matter

Cept I can tell you that anything that is offical Konami when it comes to their software, ie Tag Force or World Championship series, both do not just randomly discard. They let the player pick the card.

Obvious sign the card needs an errata.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Miror B. on 2011-11-06, 21:16

Tsunayoshi wrote:
raidou wrote:.....k now i know something is wrong with tsuna


he is the kind of people who invents an error if he cant find one so he can complain about it



no idea why he thinks the method to choose the random card is so important as long as the player whos supposed to discard at random doesnt choose which one discard, how the card is chosen doesnt matter

Cept I can tell you that anything that is offical Konami when it comes to their software, ie Tag Force or World Championship series, both do not just randomly discard. They let the player pick the card.

...wat? Just used Mind Crush in WC 2011 and declared a wrong card. Guess what? I didn't get to choose. It randomly selected.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  kangtuji on 2011-11-06, 21:54

Uh-oh... here goes drama on my thread, anyway... my opinion:

The Detonator wrote:Oh wow i cant read o.O thats bad of me.

But yes the above works fine. Its how its done in real life and its how its done here. If you have a problem call staff to your duel.

TheBlackRoseGuy wrote:I think there should be a feature of this.

In RL, this wouldn't be too much of a problem, since you just put ur cards facedown. However, in DN, since a lot of people are newbies or ignorant, they will say "it doesn't you choose", thus creating problems and possibly quit. Right now opponent picking is the best option for randomness, but not every1 will agree to it.

You forgotting to count human behaviour on this solution.

As blackrosedude said, opp will just quit if (there might be another possibility, but basically there actions):

A) Waiting too long for staff (in queue)
B) Immediately quit after they realize they're doing wrong
C) Quit after they hear admin correcting them / aggree with opp
D) Quit after the staff leaves

We aren't talking about ideal world just like vidya game here, we are talking about harsh reality and how human behaviour. (This quitters happen more if they're using a netdecking deck, no need a rocket scientist to realize that.. I believe people who experience lot time in DN would say the same... but I guess I was reading too much manga/anime)
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  viperver1 on 2011-11-07, 01:44

IRL, people usually select 1 face-down card in their opponent's hand to discard instead of randomly selecting. In that case, he'd made an illegal move (on his part). As what you've said, they should quit when they realising that they've made the mistake and getting them to quit/surrender the duel is the best form of action here.

Only if people who made the wrong decision(s) would surrender their duels instead of quitting/drawing if they done things like that.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Miror B. on 2011-11-07, 10:30

viperver1 wrote:As what you've said, they should quit when they realising that they've made the mistake and getting them to quit/surrender the duel is the best form of action here.
I'd be happy if they add that card back to their hand and let me random select really. It's not like me seeing a card in their hand hurts me at all.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Kaiba on 2011-11-08, 13:12

When it comes to selecting a card at random, a player can use any method to choose it.

So that could be by having your opponent select one of the cards without seeing their faces, or by setting them down and rolling a die to figure out which card to choose.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Chief on 2011-11-08, 13:56

Number the cards from 1-6. Roll a die, discard the number that comes up.
For those of you too slow to figure out what to do with less than 6 cards. You re-roll if a number comes up that isn't available.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  [S]tarstrike on 2011-11-08, 17:00

Wow. If this isn't some whining, I don't know what is. Ever since I started playing, if there was a card that said to discard randomly, I would choose for my opponent or my opponent would choose for me. It's as random as it gets. The opponent didn't see what card it is so they had no way to be biased in their choice.

Seriously, if you're playing people that are whining about stuff like this, then you had the right to ragequit. I'da done the same. Especially against a netdecker. It's completely idiotic to have a 2 page thread on how to randomly discard a card from the opponent's hand. I guess Konami had a little more faith in people than they should when they wrote that card text and the ones similar.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Hunter_13 on 2011-11-08, 20:39

people...mind crush, like all the other cards in yugioh, were designed to work IN REAL LIFE, konami is not thinkin on DN when printing their cards....as simple as that...

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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  viperver1 on 2011-11-12, 23:09

Well for true people, the person who activated the choice of randomly discarding an card should be the one choosing not the person it's used against. Less chance of an biased choice but would prevent confliction. It is quite simple as it is.

Rolling a die would make it random but it does have an flaw if it chooses the card they wanted to discard anyways. Surprised
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Miror B. on 2011-11-13, 01:18

viperver1 wrote:Well for true people, the person who activated the choice of randomly discarding an card should be the one choosing not the person it's used against. Less chance of an biased choice but would prevent confliction. It is quite simple as it is.

Rolling a die would make it random but it does have an flaw if it chooses the card they wanted to discard anyways. Surprised
First paragraph: It should be the opponent of the one randomly discarding, since they shouldn't know the opponent's cards anyway.

Second Paragraph: What? So random choices shouldn't have a chance to choose the best outcome? Isn't the random part supposed to be that it could be good or bad? Having the possibility to discard what they wanted to discard is in no way a flaw.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  viperver1 on 2011-11-14, 06:19

Maybe, but still there is something to learn if something is not entirely gained. As what I known, the person could possibly have an random number figured out but I recommend an generator (not programmed in DN) that reveals an separate number depending on the number of cards in the hand.

Also, it might be just like an two sided coin either doing you some good or bad. You can be right about the one that wanted is no flaw but like I said, it can go two ways depending on what outcome is either depending on the situation.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Dueler312 on 2012-01-17, 22:18

I actually found a way on Dueling Network to a random discard from my hand, if it says I have to do it. I shufle my hand 3 times, and the card closest to the deck will be the card discarded. That way its random, and no can say that I cheated.

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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Key on 2012-01-17, 23:38

By the time you finished shuffling your hand, you can see the cards already, so even if it's completely random, your opponent can say it's not
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Potus-Mat on 2012-01-17, 23:39

Just have the opponent pick a card at random. And two month necrobump.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Dueler312 on 2012-01-17, 23:46

Key wrote:By the time you finished shuffling your hand, you can see the cards already, so even if it's completely random, your opponent can say it's not

One thing though. You can never determine what card is going to be where when you shuffle your hand on DN. and since you can't rearrange the cards in your hand manually, this way is a good way to do a random discard from your hand, if you have to do it.

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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Key on 2012-01-17, 23:52

Main point: Your opponent doesn't know you're doing it randomly
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Dueler312 on 2012-01-17, 23:54

Key wrote:Main point: Your opponent doesn't know you're doing it randomly

If you are shuffling your hand to make it random then yes he or she will. plus it wouldn't hurt to let them know as well in the chat bar.

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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  DefiniteOtaku on 2012-01-18, 00:04

Dueler312 wrote:
Key wrote:Main point: Your opponent doesn't know you're doing it randomly

If you are shuffling your hand to make it random then yes he or she will. plus it wouldn't hurt to let them know as well in the chat bar.

So your saying that by totally seeing the cards your going to discard, it's random?
No Bueno.
Have your opponent choose for you, only way to make it random.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Cosmic_Fate on 2012-01-18, 00:07

DefiniteOtaku wrote:
Dueler312 wrote:
Key wrote:Main point: Your opponent doesn't know you're doing it randomly

If you are shuffling your hand to make it random then yes he or she will. plus it wouldn't hurt to let them know as well in the chat bar.

So your saying that by totally seeing the cards your going to discard, it's random?
No Bueno.
Have your opponent choose for you, only way to make it random.
Logic does not compute, try again!

Honestly, DefiniteOtaku's way is one of the best.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  raidou on 2012-01-18, 00:15

DefiniteOtaku wrote:
Dueler312 wrote:
Key wrote:Main point: Your opponent doesn't know you're doing it randomly

If you are shuffling your hand to make it random then yes he or she will. plus it wouldn't hurt to let them know as well in the chat bar.

So your saying that by totally seeing the cards your going to discard, it's random?
No Bueno.
Have your opponent choose for you, only way to make it random.


stop ..........think!
you are seeing but you ARENT choosing it the game does it
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  kangtuji on 2012-01-18, 02:38

So... tldr;
Why don't we request a button that will discard a card from hand randomly

Less rage, less drama, and less brain required
and cut times (waiting list / calling adming / gameplay / etc...)

And everyone happy
a Win-Win solution, only if this happen,
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  raidou on 2012-01-18, 02:42

i dont get it why people complain about the metods we use now

there is no way to predict which card will be discarded
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  kangtuji on 2012-01-18, 03:04

its just human nature
They always suspicious even you did wrong thing

the only way and easiest (and fair) to clear this are using 3'rd person or tools to prevent cheating
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Cosmic_Fate on 2012-01-18, 03:19

You can't honestly think that people on Dn woudl resort to cheating or not knowing how to play. Dn is dumb-proofed.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  kangtuji on 2012-01-18, 03:21

Well... you must be new here (otherwise these suggestions will never happens at first palace)

Welcome to DN Very Happy
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

Post  Vincent on 2012-01-18, 03:29

This thread got bumped so I'm going to dig for more clarification:

The Detonator and 10th said that since the person picking randomly from the hand is he person who is discarding, essentially the discard is not random because they are allowed to look at their cards while selecting, basically making it impossible to have a random select.

So, in both reality during tourneys and in DN, according to official rulings, if a person guesses wrong during Mind Crush they don't have to do any sort of procedure to keep from seeing the cards, and make the process "random"?

Wow, that needs to be errata fixed hard. The opponent needs to chose randomly. No way Mind Crush needs choice.
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Re: Discard hand RANDOMLY

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